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012 Jessica Haines

[00:00:00] Viv Guy: Well, I am super excited to welcome Jessica Haynes to the show today, talking all about websites. So Jessica, welcome to the show.

[00:00:12] Jessica Haines: Thanks for having me. I’m really excited to chat with you today.

[00:00:15] Viv Guy: I cannot wait for this episode.

[00:00:17] Viv Guy: I know we had a good talk before we got into recording today to chat about how this episode is going to be different from the likes. We had Greg Faxon on talking all about SEO and you know how to use an optimize our search engine optimization.

[00:00:32] Viv Guy: This is something brand spanking new, and this is very much we’re going to be diving into today. Aren’t we? How to use our websites to grow our email list specifically. So Jessica, this is something that obviously you do tell us a little bit more about who you are, um, your business, what you do and how you help.

[00:00:53] Jessica Haines: Sure. So, um, I’m a website designer and SEO coach, and SEO is a big part of what I do for clients when I set up their websites. But I’m all for creating websites that look good. I feel like you, and that you’re really proud to show off, but also that are actually designed to convert your visitors into subscribers and clients, because there’s nothing worse than having a website that’s just sitting there and not doing anything to actually grow your business. So I’m really creating something that makes, makes it a tool to help you grow overall. So a lot of what I share about is things like conversion list, growth, um, SEO, of course, and yeah, I love it. It’s I really, really enjoy it.

[00:01:37] Viv Guy: It’s one of the big things, you know, I’m sure you see a lot is a lot of people start their businesses. lovely looking websites, but they actually have no traffic to those websites. So they’re not working for them in terms of list growth and helping them build that list. So let’s dive in and start dissecting some of these issues that people may have when it comes to to websites to [00:02:00] using and optimizing their websites, to drive traffic to their email lists and so on and so forth.

[00:02:04] Viv Guy: So first off let’s get to the basics. What are the essential pages to have if you’re just starting out or just think I need a website, maybe you’ve had a websites over a couple of pages. What are the basic pages to get in place if you’re starting with your website?

[00:02:22] Jessica Haines: Yeah, sure. So really there’s only four main pages you really need when you’re starting out.

[00:02:26] Jessica Haines: So obviously you’ll have your homepage where people first, generally come and visit you on your website and that kind of thing. As like an index for a book, it kind of introduces all the other sections of your website. So we’ll share a little bit about what you do and who you help a little bit about you as a person and why people would want to choose you over someone else, um, to do that.

[00:02:48] Jessica Haines: So, um, it will have that sort of information, a little bit about your services and things like that on that page, that link people through to the other pages on your website. So when you’re introducing yourself, you’ll link to your about page so people can learn more about you. And when you’re introducing your services, you’ll link to your service page so they can learn more about what you offer.

[00:03:08] Jessica Haines: so that’s kind of your home page as a very basic. Then your about page is the next page you want to have. And I hear people on the fence about whether to include this or not. Yes, we should always have an about page because that’s where people are going to connect with you and really work out if you’re the right person to be able to help them.

[00:03:27] Jessica Haines: One of the misconceptions, that most of us have is that our about page is solely about us, but really we want people to connect with why we’re the right person to help them. So it’s a good way to position our services from there.

[00:03:40] Viv Guy: I love that.

[00:03:41] Viv Guy: And I think that it’s, you know, I hear this so often with people, they just think, I just need to talk about myself. Uh, nobody, you know, nobody comes to your website. Is that interested in you? You know, we are quite narcissistic people. It’s all about us and why, you know, why is it, why is it a benefit to work with you?

[00:03:57] Viv Guy: So definitely start with, [00:04:00] linking it to that person. And then, like you say, then people would be like, okay, now why are you, why are you the best person? So, you know, then getting to a bit more of a personal connection

[00:04:09] Jessica Haines: That’s right. And you can definitely have both parts because generally if we’re working closely with someone as, um, providing them a service, people are going to be working with us because of that connection they have with us. So you still want to have some of that, but, they just need to say the link of why you’re the perfect person to help them first to catch their attention and keep them reading and engaging so they’re more likely to move through.

[00:04:34] Jessica Haines: Yeah.

[00:04:35] Jessica Haines: So the third page, I always suggest is having a services page and when you’re just starting out, it doesn’t have to be a super elaborate page. So you don’t have to have a big fancy sales page that goes on and takes 20 minutes to read or anything like that.

[00:04:49] Jessica Haines: Generally, when you’re starting at, you want it to be fairly simple and straightforward. So sharing a bit about what you do, but from the perspective of how it’s a benefit to your audience and how it’s going to help them. So we want to know the benefits and what we get out of the service, not just the logistical.

[00:05:09] Jessica Haines: I get a six page website or something like that. If you can share those benefits, it will connect a lot more with people. So they’ll be more likely to reach out to take that next step.

[00:05:20] Viv Guy: Yeah. People buy people, buy results, don’t they? People buy the outcomes, they don’t buy the deliverables .

[00:05:26] Jessica Haines: Exactly. And like that’s what sort of information has some value to people for the people who do like to have those details, but you don’t want it front and center generally you’ll have that further down the page so people could connect with why, um, why you do what you do and how you can help them first.

[00:05:46] Jessica Haines: The other fourth page I suggest having. Some sort of contact or application page, so people can easily take that next step to reach out to you. So you can kind of fit that into the services [00:06:00] page if you wanted to.

[00:06:01] Jessica Haines: So I have a specific form on my services page for people to apply there, but also there’s going to be some people who aren’t going to want to read the services page and get to the bottom, having that separate contact or apply page, lets them easily see at a glance, looking at your navigation, what step they can take. If they want to bypass everything else on your website, they can go straight to that option. So having that page can be really helpful there.

[00:06:26] Viv Guy: That’s really cool. I love that. Okay. And, what should be on those pages that is going to help us grow our email list?

[00:06:36] Jessica Haines: Well overall, um, with growing your email list, you want to be promoting it pretty much everywhere on your website. So, um, I will just add, if you do want to add a fifth page on your website, I always suggest having a blog, um, whether you podcasts or YouTube as well, you can weave that into a blog and that’s a good place to share value with people.

[00:06:53] Jessica Haines: So if you did want to have that extra page, adding in a blogcan be helped there. Um, but with your email list and growing that through your website, you want to have your sign up form plastered in a lot of spots, because if someone just goes to one page on your website, they’re not going to see it. If it’s only on your home page and they end up on your services page, or if they’re reading a blog post and you only have. it on your homepage it’s going to be missed. And generally we need a lot of repetition, um, overall to reinforce the signup message. So if they’re only seeing at once on your website, again, it’s very easy to just skim past it and not notice it. So I always suggest having it towards the top of your homepage. So, um, when someone’s first on your homepage for the people who don’t really want to scroll through and just rate the top of the page and don’t go too far, if you have it towards the top, it will catch your attention.

[00:07:43] Jessica Haines: Nice and early on. Then in your website footer, because that by default shows on every page of your website, no matter what website you use, your footer should be showing across all of the pages, unless you specifically remove it from a certain page, which is certainly an option. If you [00:08:00] wanted to, if you blog, you can weave it into all of your blog posts so that people can see that a reminder to sign up pretty much everywhere.

[00:08:10] Jessica Haines: One other one that can be a bit controversial to people is having a popup on your website.

[00:08:15] Jessica Haines: So a marketing pop upto get people onto your email list can be a very effective way to grow your email list through your website. I do suggest not having it super annoying in people’s face when they immediately land on your website, though, because that can be very much a turnoff .

[00:08:32] Jessica Haines: So I always suggest delaying it. And there’s a few ways you can delay it depending on what platform you use, but it could be that they’ve been on the page for a certain amount of time, and then it pops up. Or if they scroll to a certain percentage down the page, it pops up after they hit that certain point, or even there’s some where, if you go to exit out of a page. the action of moving yourmouse up to the X in the top corner that can trigger it as well.

[00:08:58] Jessica Haines: So things like that, if you’re delaying it. So it’s not immediately in someone’s face and annoying and they can work really well.

[00:09:04] Viv Guy: I know I fought pop-ups for so long with my website, so I was like, I hate them. I hate them. I bet. Actually what I found when, uh, when I really spend more time investigating this was, it was the big ones that just took up the whole page, whereas the ones that came in from the sidebar. So you could still keep reading and it was there and it was kind of, it caught your attention, but it didn’t consume the whole page. Those I was okay with, so actually on my own website, I now have some sidebar ones, which are the ones that come in on the side of the page, so they don’t consume the whole page.

[00:09:36] Viv Guy: Now, a couple of things that came out from that,were, when you say about the signup option, are you talking about just where you see on websites where it says, Hey, subscribe to my email list, or are you talking about having an actual get this freebie, um, this free, you know, guide this opt-in take this quiz, whatever it might be, which do you mean when you’re saying havingon different pages and within your [00:10:00] blogs?

[00:10:01] Jessica Haines: So I always suggest having something of value people can sign up for. Most of us are pretty bored with just your stereotypical newsletter. Overall, generally, if you have some sort of freebie or a reason for people to sign up, so it could be a quiz, it could be a free guide.

[00:10:17] Jessica Haines: It could be a video series. It could be reminders for your blog posts and podcasts episodes when they come out and things like that. If you’re giving a reason for someone to sign up, that gives them value, then they’re generally going to perform a lot better than just subscribe to my newsletter.

[00:10:34] Jessica Haines: You can experiment based on your personality and what sort of content you like creating. Um, so you find the perfect opt-in for your audience, but having something that they get for it is a great way to give them that bit of value and a taste of what you offer and really get them to connect right from the start.

[00:10:52] Viv Guy: Yeah. So, is it still worth having the sign up, subscribe to my newsletter, sign up to my newsletter anywhere on your site, or is that just kind of had it’s day now? , what are your views on that?Overall? I

[00:11:06] Jessica Haines: find they don’t tend to perform very well because we do find newsletters pretty overdone these days with when our inboxes are flooded.

[00:11:14] Jessica Haines: Um, but you can always test it with your audience. Everyone’s audience is different, so you can always test it for a month, see how that performs, then switch it out to an opt-in of some sort and test that for a month. And then you can really compare the results, to work out, which is performing better. And that will be more tailored to your audience. So you’ll get an idea of what your own people like. So that can be a really good way to work out, which is best.

[00:11:40] Viv Guy: Do you recommend having the same opt-in throughout the site or different offers of different freebies throughout the site?.

[00:11:50] Jessica Haines: You can experiment with that as well. So with growing your email list through your website, it really is a lot of experimentation over time. I always suggest start with one that’s really [00:12:00] valuable and links to what you do. You definitely want to make sure it links to your services and it’s not something random. Like, it wouldn’t make sense for me as a website designer to have like a quote bundle or something like that.

[00:12:10] Jessica Haines: There’s just no link there. So make sure it links to what you do. Um, and start with one. , and then from there you can experiment with different ones. So as your services change, or if you have multiple services, you can kind of tailor them to each different service. Um, and this is where it can be especially helpful withblog posts or, or if you’re adding freebies into the podcast episodes or videos and things, you’ll start to build up a few different ones over time, naturally from that.

[00:12:38] Jessica Haines: And then you might find, for example, I have an SEO checklist for Squarespace and I have a website audit checklist on my website. And depending on what blog post I’m writing I’ll fit in the most appropriate, that actually links to the content that I’m creating. So that can make it more effective overall.

[00:12:55] Jessica Haines: But you can, if you have a few, you can start experimenting and see which actually gets more people to sign up. And which from there actually gets more people reaching out to work with you. Okay. It’s the next kind of step you want to think about? Um, it’s all good and well, to have thousands of subscribers to one particular freebie, but if they’re not turning into clients at the other end, it’s not generally the most effective.

[00:13:20] Viv Guy: Yeah, absolutely. So let’s just, before we delve into that topic a little bit more, let’s just talk about optimizing our. So landing pages, we didn’t talk too much on having landing pages and thank you pages as kind of our core pages, which I know obviously you can get with email providers, but, um, what are the common mistakes you see people making when it comes to creating landing pages that maybe aren’t converting and thank you pages again, that aren’t moving people on that journey to becoming a client.

[00:13:50] Jessica Haines: Yeah. So, um, landing pages would generally be the next sort of, um, sort of pages that I would look at creating for our website. So once you have your base four pages there that are [00:14:00] showcasing what you do, then you’ll dive into the things like landing pages and a landing page is basically the one page with its sole purpose to promote whatever it is they’re signing up for.

[00:14:10] Jessica Haines: So whether. Your quiz or that your freebie or your masterclass or whatever that is. One of the biggest mistakes I see with those pages is people clutter them up with too much information and links that go elsewhere. And it’s not focused on that one action. So a landing page should always be focused on just that one thing that sign up.

[00:14:31] Jessica Haines: So I always suggest removing the header and footer off that page. So you’re stripping out the navigation. People can only stay on that page then or close the window. So they’re more likely to actually input their details. Than get distracted by going to check out your blog or contacting you for some reason and things like that.

[00:14:49] Jessica Haines: So if you can remove those. That’ll automatically cuts out a lot of the distractions. And then making sure you have a really catchy headline that speaks to why someone wants what you’re offering. So if we just say here’s a website audit checklist, that’s about very compelling, but, um, here’s a list that will help you go throughand see what changes to make on your website to get you more clients? That’s going to connect a lot more because it’s speaking to the benefit of getting more clients. So playing around with, um, the benefits that are most compelling to your audience.

[00:15:23] Jessica Haines: From there, I also suggest, um, speaking to a little bit about what someone gets from it. So this is where bullet points can come in really handy listing, just a few of the, um, actual results people will get from it, or what’s included in there. So people can see nice and easily at a glance, what they get from it.

[00:15:43] Jessica Haines: Then keeping the signup really simple again.

[00:15:46] Viv Guy: I saw a really interesting stat from Neil Patel. That was saying when you actually drop the name as well, if you, if you don’t personalize emails, you know, and you keep them generic, um, dropping the name can [00:16:00] really increase that conversion as well. And just having the email. So like the minimum, minimum viable sort of data to get that person on your email list.

[00:16:09] Viv Guy: What are your thoughts on that? Because obviously I don’t use names a lot in emails, but there are times that I do, so I would miss having that. But I kind of think, could I survive without it, you know, in, in the sense for it helping improve conversion rates even further?

[00:16:26] Jessica Haines: Um, well, it’s one of those things you need to weigh up with how you actually connect with people.

[00:16:31] Jessica Haines: I’m someone who likes to use someone’s name and email. So I’ll say hi, such and such or Hey, um, whoever. So I like to have the name but if you have no intention of addressing your audience in that way certainly drop it off, there’s no need to have it if you’re not going to use that. Um, but if you do want to personalize your emails, then I always suggest having the name included just the first name.

[00:16:54] Viv Guy: Yeah. I love that. So Jessica, let’s move on to talking about Google bots. What are these little things are, what should we know about them?

[00:17:05] Jessica Haines: Yeah, sure. Um, so they relate to SEO. So SEO stands for search engine optimization, and it’s basically a way of setting your website up so that search engines like Google and Bing and Yahoo and the different ones that are out there can actually easily scan your website and find out what it’s about.

[00:17:24] Jessica Haines: And. Then they can know when to show it in search results. So, um, the Google bots and each platform will have their own little, um, bots that will basically jump from link to link on the internet, scanning the websites to see what’s on that, um, those particular pages. And when they come to your website, they’ll be looking at your content, seeing how it all links together, what you’re all about.

[00:17:47] Jessica Haines: So they know can go and kind of store your website in an archive and know when to show it in those search results. So, um, they’re really, don’t naturally come to your website over time. Anyway, there’s ways you [00:18:00] can speed it up. If you go to like Google search console and things like that. And let Google know basically, Hey, my website exists comes, check it out.

[00:18:09] Jessica Haines: So there’s ways you can speed them up, but basically, um, there’ll be, what’s actually looking over your website and seeing what’s there. The pages that have very little content or very little value that aren’t likely to show in search results. I sometimes suggest going in and intentionally hiding those pages, because if they’re showing in search results, it’s kind of detracting away from those main pages. You want to get people on it. That’s generally your home page, your about page, your services page and your blog, for example, pages like your contact page and even your landing pages, don’t have a lot of content and a lot of SEO value because they’re just not, um, not massive pages overall.

[00:18:49] Jessica Haines: So there’s not a lot of words there. There’s not a lot. You can really do to optimize those pages for actual search results. So if you hide them from search results that can sometimes keep it more focused on those main pages

[00:19:02] Viv Guy: That’s awesome, it was one of the things that was like a real eye-opener for me was like how Google bots are trawling and the page is, you know, you don’t really want them to be trawling.

[00:19:11] Viv Guy: Um, so, so that’s great. So, what are some of the common mistakes you see people make with websites and on list-building through their websites. And I know this is probably a, you know, how long is a piece of string kind of question, but what are some of those key kind of mistakes, that thing, things that people should avoid?

[00:19:33] Jessica Haines: Oh, well, first one is generally being really vague about what you do and who you help. So there’s some websites you’ll land on the homepage. You’ll read all the content on that page. You’ll sometimes click around to a few other pages and you still won’t really know what someone does. That’s one of those huge mistakes where you’re missing a lot of opportunities because we have about seven seconds or so.

[00:19:55] Jessica Haines: When someone lands on our website to catch their attention, people, aren’t going to read past [00:20:00] that if you haven’t caught their attention. So if you’re really vague about what you do and who you help and why someone should be. Chances are they’re going to bounce straight away and go elsewhere. So making sure it’s really clear, especially at the top of your homepage can make a big difference in people actually exploring a lot more.

[00:20:17] Jessica Haines: Um, the next mistake I see is just having a lot of dead ends on your website, where you’re not really directing people where to go. So for people who use social media use, your used to hearing over and over again, use calls to action on each of your posts, but the same goes for your website. You want to be guiding people through your website to where you want them to go.

[00:20:36] Jessica Haines: So whether that’s, um, your newsletter signup or your. Um, application page or your services page, making sure you weave those calls to action in giving that next step and making it really easy for someone to get it. So on your homepage, for example, if you’re talking about your services, having a button right there, so people can click through to your services page, it keeps them moving to where you want them to go having this opt-in right there without people having to go find it on your website can get them taking that action straight away.

[00:21:06] Jessica Haines: Most people forget to have something at the bottom of your about page. Um, so if you haven’t looked at your about page for a while, go check it and make sure you have you’re directing someone to go somewhere else after

[00:21:17] Viv Guy: That’s a good point. That’s such a good point. Isn’t it? Because About pages are really looked at pages aren’t they? I think when I’ve looked at, you know, the, the data on this, um, yeah. So if you’re not sending people and sign, posting them somewhere else, do it, you know, fix that.

[00:21:33] Viv Guy: Definitely. Um, Uh, you have a surprising fact for us, don’t you, that will showcase to as why it’s so important to prioritize growing an email list through your website. So what is this, this surprising fact, Jessica.

[00:21:53] Jessica Haines: Yeah. Sure. So when, um, when you look at the statistics overall, only about 3% of people who come to [00:22:00] your website are actually going to be actively looking for someone who does what you do to help them.

[00:22:05] Jessica Haines: Most of the people that find your website, uh, uh, maybe entertaining ideas of, um, needing to work with someone in the future and things like that. But only about 3% of people actually ready to take action and likely to reach out to you to actually hire you for that. So that’s 97% of people who are just floating around on your website.

[00:22:25] Jessica Haines: And then when they bounce, if you’re not capturing their attention on your email list, they’ll likely, never come back. You’ll just disappear to the void of the internet in their search history. And if you get them on your email list instead, then you’re able to nurture them over time and really build that connection and stay top of mind so that when they’re looking for someone who does what you do, you’re going to be the first person they think of.

[00:22:49] Jessica Haines: So, um, that’s 97% of people. So you want to try and get as many of those people onto your email list as you can. So yeah, most people don’t realize. Most people expect, people expect that they’re just going to get inquiries through the website, but generally people are going to get on your email list first and nurturing over time will lead to those enquiries.

[00:23:11] Viv Guy: Yeah. It’s so much easier to get people to take the next small step versus like, you know, opening their wallets to put down.

[00:23:19] Viv Guy: And the big bucks says it’s to invest in like your one-to-one coaching or whatever it might be. Whereas actually saying, Hey, why not join my email list? Hey, why not? You know, watch this video next. Hey, why not? You know, hop on a 15 minutes, like game plan call, or, you know, what is the simple next step that kind of takes them along that journey and holds their hand with it.

[00:23:37] Viv Guy: You know, rather than saying, let’s go from a to Z or a to Zed, wherever you’re at in the world, you know, immediately, you know, we’re going to fill in and do the other steps, love that

[00:23:46] Jessica Haines: I’m not going to pay thousands of dollars on my credit card immediately on a website. If I’m only just met you, no matter how good your services sounds like it’s not a reality for most people that are going. Um, do that. So, [00:24:00] you know, you need to nurture a bit more first . Okay.

[00:24:02] Viv Guy: Absolutely. What. what update can people make today that could help them get better results overall from their website? What’s that one kind of key thing they could do right now?

[00:24:16] Jessica Haines: Well, right now going into your website, overall testing the sign up forms and making sure they are everywhere.

[00:24:22] Jessica Haines: So again, top of your homepage, your website footer, in all of your blog posts. If you have a lot of blog posts and that don’t have it at least start with the most popular ones that are getting the traffic, uh, checking your blog, sidebar, um, testing out the popup idea, and just making sure it is actually everywhere, making sure you have that landing page, so that you can easily send that to people. So the benefit of those pages, if you are using social media or anything like that, you can share the link directly to that page. Distraction-free and good to get those signups. Even if you don’t have the time right now, just schedule half an hour an hour sometime this week to actually start weaving them through a bit more generally, there’ll be at least one more spot you can add.

[00:25:06] Viv Guy: That’s fantastic. Yeah. I love that. And I know you said obviously experiment as well, so experiment for what 30 days, just to see how things are going and what works with your, you know, your site traffic and your visitors.

[00:25:20] Jessica Haines: Yeah. So I think 30 days is a good window for it. Um, as long as you’re consistent with it, and just really see what results you’re getting from it.

[00:25:28] Viv Guy: So, Jessica, if people are interested in finding out more about you, how to connect with you, how can they do.

[00:25:38] Jessica Haines: Well, the best places are either my website or my Facebook group. Um, so my website is www.jessicanhainesdesign.com. And for my Facebook group, if you go to www.jessicanhainesdesign.com/facebook, it will redirect you to the group since it’s made by easy at a time.

[00:25:54] Viv Guy: That’s brilliant. So, so Jessica, how can people work [00:26:00] with you?

[00:26:01] Jessica Haines: Yeah, sure. So, um, I, I do custom website design.

[00:26:05] Jessica Haines: So if you’re looking for a brand new website or a redesign, then I have packages for that. But I also work off a one day design intensives as well. So if you have an existing website that’s performing reasonably well, but you want to freshen things up or you want to really go in and optimize it a bit better for things like email list growth and SEO and things like that. Then the design intensive is basically we take the checklist of updates. Do you want to be making and work through them in order of priority, we spend the whole day together or two half days, depending on where in the world you are compared to me, then we can really get through that checklist and you can get a lot done in a day.

[00:26:44] Viv Guy: Love that. That’s fantastic, Jessica. Thank you so, so much for being on the show today, it’s been great to have you here helping us figure out and navigate all things websites to yeah to email list subscribers and how to get that website or our websites really working in our favor to grow the ever important email list that we talk about week in and weekout on the show here. So, Jessica, thank you very much.

[00:27:13] Jessica Haines: Thanks for having me. I’ve really enjoyed chatting with you.