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[00:00:00] Viv: If you work with clients one-to-one or in group

[00:00:02] programs, then I’ve got something

[00:00:04] totally free to help you to improve your online presence and see more success in 2022. But it’s only for the next couple of weeks. Yes. It’s from the 21st of April, 2022 to these. Of May, 2022. So you’ve got to act fast. So the client attraction giveaway is your ticket to next level success in 2022.

[00:00:33] And my best buddy, Carolyn has gathered some top industry experts from across the globe, including yours, truly to help you in every area of your business, business strategy, sales and marketing. Speaking of visibility, health, and wellness taken before. And finance now, did I mention that not only will entering the client attraction giveaway, provide you with a chance to get the tools that you need to boost your business, [00:01:00] but it also helps out an important, not for profit, but every person that opps into this giveaway, we’re given 50.

[00:01:08] To the foundation for black women’s wellness. That is an amazing, amazing foundation to support. So what do you need to do head on over to client attraction, giveaway.com forward slash Viv that’s client attraction, giveaway.com forward slash Bev. And I’ll pop that in the show notes for you too. She’s the only woman.

[00:01:34] Yeah. So I’ll put three o’clock in the morning to speak to because time. Suck. And she is the one and only Leoni Dawson. Yes. I’m starstruck. I am a love struck. This woman is somebody. I absolutely admire Maya and respect and who absolutely tickles me sideways. When I read some off her emails and blogs. I just love this [00:02:00] woman.

[00:02:00] She’s also a fellow kindred spirit. Somebody who. Without social media. So when I decided to launch this podcast last year, she was one of the first people I wanted to invite onto the show. And so I did, and she said, yes. I’m very, very excited to be inviting and welcoming my guest today. Leoni Dawson. Now what you’re learning today’s episode from the owner is how running a business that’s made over $12 million so far.

[00:02:36] Has always had better leads without social media than with yes. And then finding partners, collaborators, and so on and so forth all without social media. How do you find them? How do you identify who they are and where they are without social? And the third thing you’re going to learn is how to run a business and mark.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] And just 10 hours a week. Yes, just 10 hours a week. Without further ado. I welcome the marvelous. Whoa, wonderful. The one and only swear bad. That is Leoni. Dawson.

[00:03:22] you’re listening to. Two, without social media with me, they’ve guide the podcast for people who want more clarity, connections, and cash in that business. I’ll be sharing with you, proven techniques for leading entrepreneurs and experts from across the globe to help you to market without social media and to grow your business

[00:03:44] in a way that actually feels good to you.

[00:03:55] Welcome Leoni, Dawson. I am super excited to have you [00:04:00] here on the show. I mean marketing without social media, couldn’t have a bowl. Perfect guest. So welcome.

[00:04:06] Leonie: Uh, babes. It’s so good to be here and thanks for waking up. So fricking early to talk to me, you are an absolute

[00:04:12] Viv: doll. Yeah. Time zones for anyone listening.

[00:04:15] SOC uh, I have two sisters in Australia have, is in Australia. It’s 3:00 AM here for me. It’s the middle of middle of the day differently only. So yeah, she’s the only, only person I think I would get up for at 3:00 AM in the morning to interview. But you know, like I said, you know, the queen of marketing without social media, I had to be on the podcast.

[00:04:35] 2020, what was a big year? They were a lot of people leaving social media, you know, we’ve had some of them on the show already. You for one, obviously left quite early on in 2021. Didn’t you talk just gives a little like, summary about how that came about.

[00:04:49] Leonie: Sure. You know, it was something that I’d been wanting to do for years.

[00:04:53] I had a picture of my journal and it said I miss the quiet space of my mind that [00:05:00] existed before the internet. And I took a photo of it and I posted it on social media. Hilarious, ironic. That was back in 2015, 2016. So obviously it had been perfectly lighting away on my brain for many years. I took a sabbatical for a while when I was burned.

[00:05:18] Yeah. In like 2017 or so it was amazing. And then realized like, no, I probably need to get on with some business at some point. So I went back into business. Yeah, well, really just reactivated everything I was doing before, including social media. And then in 2021, I had an idea that I wanted to try out like 21 day challenge.

[00:05:42] And where I would give myself a new habit or something to experiment with for 21 days, because I couldn’t commit to anything for life. I don’t want to run a marathon. I’m a good sprinter. Yeah. Well, you know, metaphoric,

[00:05:59] but [00:06:00] yeah, like I wanted to try out these challenges. And when I wrote down a list of all the things I wanted to experiment with quitting, like going off social media for 21 days was the top. And I was like, all right. And I was so anxious before I did it. And I don’t know why, because I’d be wanting to do it for so long.

[00:06:15] It was only for 21 days and I’d already had a sabbatical before from it. So I don’t know why I was so anxious, but you genuinely feel like you can’t survive without it like this huge that you’re going to miss. So I got really anxious. And then as soon as I made the decision and stopped and you know, went cold Turkey within the space of a few days, Like my brain, I could literally feel my brain healing and my life.

[00:06:45] I felt like I had so much more time and creativity and confidence and like just this deep, inner peace that I’d been craving and missing so deeply, you know? Um, and so really [00:07:00] quickly I realized like, I’m not, I’m not going back. I’m not, and I’m not going to do it person. And then I had to work through what I was going to do with my business, because, you know, I own an online business.

[00:07:11] We turn over about a million dollars a year. I was like, how am I going to navigate this without, you know, fucking it up? And I thought, well, I’ll just try it for three months and try out all the, put more time into marketing. In other words, We also looked at our statistics and only like 20% of our sales were coming from social media.

[00:07:30] But, you know, 18% of our marketing time was going into social media. So it was a really bad payback and it was any other marketing method. Of course, if you’re like, fuck, or if it’s taking that amount of time and giving us that little payback and we’ve got all the marketing methods that are giving us such better payback in much less.

[00:07:51] Yeah, we need to quit this. So it’s, it’s now just a permanent thing. We don’t have social media for my company. I don’t use it [00:08:00] personally. And like my comedy’s continued to see.

[00:08:03] Viv: Yeah. I mean, I hear you cause like, for me, when I left and resonate with so much of that and that anxiety and that fear almost before you leave, you’ve kind of set the date.

[00:08:12] I mean, I kept a diary and journal of the whole thing cause it’s so interesting. Kind of like experiencing the thing and that is the relief, but there’s also like that fear. Isn’t that? Um, unlike it’s a weird, like emotional rollercoaster in those first few weeks, but always the relief, but kind of still the help am I doing the right thing?

[00:08:29] Am I not doing the right thing? How’s this going to impact, you know, That Headspace. And I say to people, the biggest thing you buy back is your creativity. You know, which I think is so impacted by social media. I’m not for me, you know, I launched my first group program. I kind of create a podcast to have my highest revenue month or within like four weeks of leaving social media, because I just I’ve had space.

[00:08:53] I had time, you know, this is what I hear from people, you know, like. Prospective clients and clients all the time is, oh my God. You know, I’m [00:09:00] spending so much time shoveling content. So I spent a day just Shaq joining it, you know? Um, and if they’re working like three or four days a week and the rest of it’s like client time, let’s say one day scheduling social media.

[00:09:11] They’ve got no time for anything else. And what’s that post. Which one to 3% of people, maybe, you know, and that’s the frustration, then they go, you know, then I feel like I just want to cry cause nobody saw that amazing post. Um, so it’s so depressing. So yeah, I resonate the surface nine. He’s such an inspirational story.

[00:09:29] And interestingly, my own coach last year, Greg, fuck. He left social media as well. Cause he kind of realized where all his business was coming from and it was blogging. Like he liked all search engine optimization and stuff, and that’s pretty much what he does as his, his main lead gen sources. So it’s really been interesting and like proof that you can build.

[00:09:50] Multi-six seven figure businesses without any social media, as much as everyone will always say, oh, you know, social media is great. And it works in like compliments, email and everything else. Of course, [00:10:00] you know, you can use it for that. And it has its uses, but not organically. I think it’s just a pile of poo.

[00:10:05] Really. I think, you know, it’s pay to play the PLAYBAR sheet. Isn’t it? You just feed him the content like beast. That is social media. It’s organic. So. I mean, and it’s

[00:10:15] Leonie: crazy, right? Like that. We only think now like, oh, I’ve got to spend one day a week at least. On this marketing method, that’s not getting huge results.

[00:10:23] Like no, spend that time on a, not a month and nothing, because there are thousands of marketing methods out there that can get you so much bigger results.

[00:10:32] Viv: But what, what scary don’t you think is how people are so brainwashed that th the first thing is seriously, that can’t even market that social media.

[00:10:40] Is it going to damage my business? I’m like, how consistent is your like lead gen and revenue? It’s not, you know, so that is a problem. So let’s take all that time and energy. And what if we put it somewhere else, you know, and you can see your social media, but let’s try something else for awhile and like, look at how you can use social media.

[00:10:57] If you love it that much, to get a compliment. [00:11:00] The other things you doing, rather than trying to like, make that your, your main source of like how to get leads and things and

[00:11:05] Leonie: clients it’s so true. Mm. It’s like the thing it’s such a scam that we all think that social media marketing it’s non-optional because there are literally thousands of marketing methods.

[00:11:16] All of them are completely optional. A hundred percent optional. It’s like advertising in the yellow pages, optional flyer, dropping optional social media, optional it’s, whatever. For you and for your audience and actually gets you results. Like I was talking to a friend of mine who just started a hairdressing, her own hairdressing salon, and I was like, how’s business.

[00:11:40] And she’s like, oh, it’s really slow. And I said, what are you going to do? And she said, I think I’ll just do more social media posts. And I said, and how’s that been working for you? She’s like, well, you know, it’s been really slow, but if I do more than maybe, you know, I’ll get more. No, it was like, stop. Like social media is not the place for you to find you [00:12:00] clients.

[00:12:01] Why don’t you just do a letter drop to all of the businesses that are in your suburb because she’s in like an industrial state. And I was like, instead of a flyer and just be like, hi, I’m your new business neighbor. Um, you know, if you want to a haircut, you know, during your lunch hours or breaks or whatever, I’m just around the corner and I’m going to give you like a $20 discount, um, for your first haircut as.

[00:12:25] For being a business neighbor. And she was like, and she did it plus her. She actually did the fucking thing. How’s business like two weeks later. And she’s like, you fucking worked fully booked, fully booked. And it was so simple. And of course like, but she thought that she just had to do more social media because everyone’s like brainwashed into that thinking.

[00:12:48] That’s the only way. No.

[00:12:51] Viv: Yeah. What do you think? Because this is one of the big reasons I wanted to get you on because you’ve obviously, you know, you had, well, we’re on social media from, I guess its [00:13:00] inception really, you know, in the early days of Facebook. And I know I’ve heard you talk about when like a poster would get like 89% reach.

[00:13:07] Like what do you post once a week? And it was awesome. So there are a lot of very successful multi seven, eight figure entrepreneurs out there. Started their businesses, you know, or had their businesses and you social media back in those early days when it had such great reach. And then obviously they’ve built their businesses and gone to pay dots and scales and so on and so forth.

[00:13:30] And they’re still kind of peddling, I think, wrongly. But the way to start a business is to set up a Facebook group and dah, dah, dah, and use social media because what worked for them. In those early days, you know, what’s worked for them. And then they’ve kind of not realize that nowadays to set up a business on social media, brand, spanking new it’s very different.

[00:13:48] What do you think about that? Do you see that? Um,

[00:13:52] Leonie: one, I have no clue what anyone else is doing. You’re right though. Like people assume that because it’s worked for [00:14:00] them, it’s got to work for everybody. For me, like, I’ve always been very suspicious of social media. And so even in like 20 14, 20 12, I was telling people, you know, like social media, fine, but it’s not the place for you to spend all your time.

[00:14:19] It’s not the place for you to like grow your business sustainably. You need to get people onto your mailing list. You need to. A funnel to bring them if you’re going to use social media to bring them over onto your mailing list, because that is where the money is and the statistics. People on your men and these are 40 times more likely to buy from you 4, 0, 40 times more likely to buy from you than anyone like following you on social media.

[00:14:46] So that’s really where the goal is. So I’ve been really suspicious because are like I saw straight away, people were spending way too much time on it. And then like thinking that was the only thing that they needed to do. And I would agree that. But it’s always been [00:15:00] you doing a huge range of activities and being very disciplined in how you’re marketing that will get you the results.

[00:15:07] So for me, I don’t actually register my business as being a social media marketing success story. It’s like, I built my business on social media. I built my, this is my blog. I’ve been blogging since 2004. I have clients who have been buying everything from me. And they’ve known me since 2002 from when I was on message boards, you know?

[00:15:32] And they stay with me like people, like my account says like people, usually we were looking at customer life cycle. We measured. When your business it’s years, if not decades, because they believe bought from you, ones tend to just continue buying from you forever and they just stay in your circle because they want to see what happens next.

[00:15:53] Yeah.

[00:15:54] Viv: Yeah. You all quite addictive follow. Yeah. Like, I [00:16:00] don’t know what it is. Kind of like to your emails as a plus you, and like I said, you know, I kind of think right. I don’t know if it’s the color in them, maybe that kind of really catches the eye and stuff. And then I didn’t know. And the way that, you know, we’re all Pooky bears and things like that and possums and what else that writes like that.

[00:16:16] It’s just, I love it. I mean, it’s so personal, I think. And, and you’re so fat, like we were talking about before we went live today, it is how open and honest you are as well. I think, you know, that’s so important and you know, you, don’t kind of put on this business facade, just kind of tell what the reality is as well.

[00:16:33] I think that it’s just something that’s so engaging and addictive. It’s kind of, if this is the boy Boyer in me, isn’t it like, like what’s going on in other people’s world and like, yeah, I think we kind of liked to understand what’s happening with other people, not just financially and in the business, but mentally and in life.

[00:16:50] And what does that look like? And you know, what’s going on and kind of go, oh shit, she’s got car trouble as well. She’s got going on. She’s a real person, not just, not a [00:17:00] pedestal kind of thing. Yeah, well,

[00:17:02] no.

[00:17:02] Leonie: Yeah. So I would fall off big time because I am very clumsy to me. It’s about like, it’s less about like, how do I grow a big following?

[00:17:13] It’s more about like, how can I build a beautiful relationship with these beautiful people? Um, and this is the thing, like when I meet people who read my work in real life, like we are instantly besties immediately, you know, They already know me. They already get me. And they’re all my kind of people.

[00:17:32] Cause I’m not trying to appeal to everyone. I’m just trying to share my story as honestly as I can and turn up, be all of myself and that Juul people that, you know, I love into my realm. So I want to treat them beautifully and I want to send them beautiful emails. That mean a lot to me. I hope that it resonates with them.

[00:17:55] Viv: Awesome. You recently [00:18:00] talked about Leoni, had a podcast, YouTube video come out to kind of mark the one year anniversary celebration of leaving social media. And I’m going to link that in the show notes, because I don’t want to repeat all of those questions. I want to dig a bit deeper. So one of the things I know you’ve talked about is the, if you started your business from scratch, what would you do to grow your email list?

[00:18:23] And you’ve talked about summits and collaborations and things. Haven’t you previously. Now, I’m going to say that you were kind of like business, celebrity kind of thing. You’re known you are quite widely known. So you get like a lot of requests for Bonduelle speaking, soulmates. Cause I know you were fully booked when you kind of put out availability for podcasts, like months in advance.

[00:18:46] Which is great, but what do you say to like post solo prisoners who are starting out, who, like, I really want to be in some bundles, you know, and connect with other business owners. How do they go about [00:19:00] finding opportunities without social media? Because if they go right, I don’t ever want to switch to social media, I’m going to gain, how do I find the opportunities?

[00:19:09] Leonie: Oh, uh, like I never find any of those opportunities by social. And also like, I want you to know, like, even as like a celebrity, um, I still need to pitch, like, I need to pitch to be on other people’s podcasts. I need to pitch to be in bundles. Like usually bundle people. Don’t approach me.

[00:19:26] Viv: I am. Okay. Oh, that’s cool to know, because I think people are always like, oh, well she’s like got this like million dollar business.

[00:19:32] So everyone just kind of goes and knocks on the door and said, Yeah. Okay. That’s good to know. Isn’t it, everyone, like I’ve went out and had been, I felt such a relief we had actually kind of, but

[00:19:42] Leonie: then it’s also like, oh, it’s still works. That’s right. Like I can market stuff. You still have to like, you’re expanding your out.

[00:19:52] Viv: So, how do you find these people without social media? Because a lot of people are kind of like, I’ve got, I mean, it’s in my Facebook group, we’re in these communities and we’re [00:20:00] sharing all our opportunities. What do you say? People who like, I don’t want to go into social media game, you know, it gives me anxiety.

[00:20:06] I hate it. I don’t want to have to use it as a search tool or anything. Yeah, no, I’ve never

[00:20:11] Leonie: searched in that way and never found stuff that way. I always had spiritual stuff and like Google, what bundles are happening in my space. And. Googling people in that space. So people who like in the podcast, like I want to, like, I searched like all the podcasts in that particular realm, we listened to see if they’re like maybe an energy match.

[00:20:31] Okay. If they’re a guy I’m not going to pitch

[00:20:36] straight white men get me out of here.

[00:20:41] Viv: Sorry guys, you’re out.

[00:20:43] Leonie: Yeah. I mean, I have like done like maybe two podcasts with dudes, but there were hippie dudes and like, they already knew who I was and they were very cool. So, yeah. So we was just like Googling and searching. Like, you know, creating mass spreadsheets of research [00:21:00] stuff and so smart assistant, like we never used social media to research that

[00:21:03] Viv: kind of stuff.

[00:21:04] I saw some guys say your name back to it, Google, or it’s always Google. Thank you.

[00:21:09] Leonie: And then I also, like, I love blogs. Like I am an original blogger, like 2004 blogs. Has been one of the greatest joys of my life, honestly, and reading other people’s blogs has been one of the biggest inspirations of my life.

[00:21:25] And so I have a blog reader that, you know, an app that I keep and read like lots of blogs on, in all different spaces. And some of those people are in like the business world or in similar worlds. And now share about what about bundles they’re in. And so then I’ll like, go, oh, cool. They’re doing. I should reach out to that person next time for this, or, you know, it’s still a very rich and vibrant blog world out there.

[00:21:47] And it’s, it’s, it’s just filled

[00:21:49] Viv: with my scriptures. Yeah. I mean, I just saw it at someone’s email today that they’re in some sort of bundle. So, and I was like, oh, okay, that’s on the list for next year. You know, your [00:22:00] database, compile your data things, you know, make it the habit every day, every week, just add a new couple of names to it, do some research and it doesn’t have to be bundled with summits.

[00:22:08] This could be before you want to partner with, you know, and kind of freebie. Uh, yeah, absolutely. But I just wanted to put that out because I think that there’s often that perception that you get to a certain point and everyone kind of just invites you. Like you’re the queen know something and royalty to, to everything and you have to do nothing.

[00:22:24] You sit on your throne. And the world comes to you and invites you. So I just think it’s so important, you know, but this is it when people are starting out, they’re like, well, she’s got an easy, because she’s in their world, she’s in the network. She’s got all of these contacts already and it’s not the case.

[00:22:40] So guys, rest assured if you’re listening, if you know, it’s something it’s still appropriate. Still part of your marketing process that you need to do that research if you want to do that, but such a better investment of your time, just spend that time researching. But it is creating social media content because actually, you know what, you meet one [00:23:00] person who is in a bundle or part of a soulmate or doing some sort of collaboration and, oh my gosh, they know more.

[00:23:06] You know, I got in like one bundle last year, someone that goes day emailed me like six people with their email addresses who are doing different bundles and summits. I was like, that’s so kind of you, you know, for you to just send that to me and share that, and people will do that. You know, you’ve kind of just got to get your in and find like a couple and you’re suddenly in like a whole network of them.

[00:23:26] So, uh, yeah, I mean, you can have too many then to kind of keep up with. So since you left social media, what’s been your most consistent monthly list, growth activity, other than word of mouth. Ooh.

[00:23:45] Leonie: Affiliates is always a big one for us. So, you know, we did like an experiment or we did like Facebook ads and stuff like that.

[00:23:51] And I always hated it. I really just hated it. Like, I know somebody will weld Facebook ads, but I don’t, and I was found it didn’t attract like [00:24:00] the right people. Even if we like had, you know, been hyper slated, we have Facebook ad campaigns because I am in a quiet, fucking taste. I upset a lot of people with this mouse and my willingness to talk about, you know, like politics and gender and racial issues and stuff like that.

[00:24:21] Like, I am not just going to be like a bland beige person and I hope I don’t upset anyone. Oh, I’ve got a map and I will use it. I would. Get like people buying stuff from me and they’d be like, oh my God, I can’t believe you swear. And I’m like, that sales page was just sharp, full of Fox. Like what the fuck?

[00:24:40] The like the buy now button says, oh my fucking God. Yeah, it was pretty obvious. So anyway, I just do love Facebook ads and it’s also just like normally expensive, you know, especially when you’ve got like campaign managers and you kind of need campaign managers in order to make like any parking [00:25:00] sensor, but it’s just plugging expensive.

[00:25:02] We spent like a hundred grand in one year. You know, and still kind of making that money back, but it didn’t feel good at all. Whereas I love that. Like when we have affiliates, what that means is like anyone who has done my courses before can sign up to be an affiliate, they use a special link and they share about whatever program of mine they really love.

[00:25:26] And then they get 50% of the course price as a thank you. And so we spend, you know, like, This month, we send out like $12,000 to affiliates. And so they’re talking about me, they’re talking about my work and their real lived experience with me and that connection with me. And it seems to attract that much benefit for us.

[00:25:49] And it also. I love that we get to support other kind of women and non-binary businesses instead of flagging Facebook without advertising money. So that’s [00:26:00] really big for me. And then the other really big thing is honestly, just continuing to blog and create and share just whatever. Friesian I want to create really.

[00:26:11] Viv: So just on the back of that, cause you, you touched on sort of Facebook ads and not loving Facebook ads. There’s a lot of people out there who say Facebook ads are necessary to scale your business. You know, there comes a point when organic marketing is just not going to help grow your business. What are you saved about?

[00:26:30] What do you think about that?

[00:26:33] Leonie: That’s really funny, like my like $12 million begs to differ in terms of organic. And also I didn’t have to pay for a lot of that. It’s like not getting rocks. It rocks. Like I was talking to some tech bro, one day at a party. He was a lovely, lovely man. Um, and Facebook ads were a huge part of his business and he’s like, well, what are you advertising?

[00:26:58] And I was like, [00:27:00] okay. And he’s like, so we’re spending like 20% about profit goes on ads. And I was like, yeah, I just keep it. I just, I just keep that profit. And it’s really nice. I have a lot of fun with it. It’s just great. So yeah, there’s definitely like, why is it? You can grow your business organically.

[00:27:25] Hmm. Facebook ads. I don’t think anything’s necessary for business growth. Like I always just think like, when somebody says this isn’t necessary, they’re only saying it’s necessary because

[00:27:35] Viv: that’s like they’re selling a program on it. Yeah. Yeah. And then model their business. That’s how they do. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:27:42] No, it’s really, really interesting. Uh, you know, and I get to the point where that people say, holy it’s trading time, you know, isn’t it. And sort of add some much more passive, you know, I can sit back and get leads coming in. I can go on holiday leads coming in and I don’t have to actually be actively [00:28:00] marketing.

[00:28:00] What do you think about that in terms of actually gotta be on it all the time? Haven’t you kind of reaching out. Content databases, all that kind of stuff. What do you say, like in terms of the whole passive lazy kind of approach to marketing in terms of paid ads?

[00:28:15] Leonie: Well, I mean, the thing is like with paid ads, like you don’t actually like get to take big holiday or whatever.

[00:28:20] Like you do need to like, make sure that it’s still working and otherwise you’ve got to have campaign managers and campaign managers cost a lot of money. Like, you know, shit happens all the time. Like Facebook ads, so you could get closed or. Your fifth type of payment method, because they’re not good.

[00:28:37] They need more than just three payment methods. And I’m like, what the fuck, man? Whereas like, I still. It’s still passive in terms of the way I do it. I took last month, I took four months off work and we still hit over a million dollars a year and we just didn’t have lots of expenses cause we didn’t have Facebook ads.

[00:28:59] So [00:29:00]

[00:29:01] Viv: a little bit. That’s great. I think that’s everything I wanted to talk about without. I just want to, I think there’s a lot of people out there who are like, yeah, but you can’t scale without ads. So I want it to get it from, you know, the horse. $12 million. What are

[00:29:13] Leonie: you saying to that? Yeah, and I also just think like style, like, what are you, what are you talking about?

[00:29:19] Because if you grow your business without profitability, you’re actually putting yourself in a worse place. So, and I say this as somebody who did it, I scaled a scale very quickly. And, you know, at one point I had like 25. On my team and you know, all the things going and I hated it and I was working harder than ever.

[00:29:40] And it was a business I didn’t want to be in anymore because it sucked so much. And the profitability just, you know, your revenue grows, but your expenses grow as well. And I am a profit monster. I love profit. So, you know, for [00:30:00] me, like last month it was like nearly 90% profit margin, EBIT that’s earnings before tax, but I always prefer profit over scaling, like scaling such like a Dick Fest.

[00:30:12] It’s just people like masturbating over each other, but give me profit and sustainable growth and you know, a beautiful business that fits your lifestyle and your family. And fucking take that any day. I was scaling WinCo.

[00:30:26] Viv: Totally. Let’s talk about 10 hour work weeks because oh yeah, I did you try me on this?

[00:30:33] I started when I, I had my first seven figure business in my twenties and I would fucking, or hours, like 60, 80 hour weeks were the norm. I burned out like three months. It was just like my cycle. I was like, no snow did. It was terrible. Uh, but that’s how I thought it should be to run a successful business.

[00:30:48] And then I kind of was like, how about doing this anymore? I started, okay, let’s start a different business. And it did. And I had kids and I was like having to work max of 20 hours a week. And I worked with a coach at the time and she [00:31:00] was like, would you want, I was like, I don’t ever work more than 20 hours a week.

[00:31:02] And she was like, Vendome. And I was like, oh, it’s kind of like I’m permission. Um, so I don’t, you have totally. Got your one-up on me with this 10 hours a week. Phenomenal. Talk to us a little bit about how you run a business in 10 hours a week because people out there are probably like, fuck it takes me 10 hours to write a blog.

[00:31:24] What do you say? How would you, how does that work? How do you structure your.

[00:31:28] Leonie: Um, so first and foremost, people always have major misconceptions, like, oh, you can afford to, you know, only work 10 hours a week because you know, you brought in over $12 million incorrect. Like I’ve always only worked in hours a week.

[00:31:43] While I was building my business. I worked full-time for the Australian government and I only left that job fully when I had my first kid. And then I had a kid who didn’t sleep and who cried constantly and was a really high needs baby. Um, so I just didn’t. [00:32:00] Have time to, you know, to work in my business.

[00:32:05] Like I was wanting to even try and get 10 hours in and I was the breadwinner for my family. So I like needed to make cash. I need to make good cash and I needed to make it in that time. So I became very good at working out what was an essential tasks that would make profit and what was just a nice to have and all the nice to have they had to go fuck them.

[00:32:27] Mm, they can go fuck themselves. And they’ll just have to wait to some mystery day in the future where I’ll actually have time. And now, you know, my kids are older. My, my tiny baby is nearly 12. Um, my youngest is seven. No, sorry. She just turned eight, um, eight. Um, you know, they gave me a lot less now, but I don’t understand why I should increase my working hours.

[00:32:57] Viv: I was talking to my friend the other day, the dentist, and she works two days a week. [00:33:00] And I was like, where the kids are all like in school, do you think you’ll do more hours? She was like, hell no, never, ever working more than two days a week. Why? You know, she’s like, I can still have like the same. I used to learn in three.

[00:33:14] In two days, because actually not, but you’ve got a day it’s, you’ve got a third of your income as you know, for her second.

[00:33:19] Leonie: Yeah. We just got to be smart about it. And so, and then people always like, oh, the reason that you can work 10 hours a week is because you’ve got a really large team. No. When I had a really large team, I had to work more because it takes more time to manage people.

[00:33:32] So I have two part-time assistants. They work total. 25 hours a week. So between the three of us, it’s like a maximum of, you know, we’re not even one full-time person in my business and that’s all of us, the way to the way to retreat your work hours is reduce your work hours and see what needs to go fuck itself [00:34:00] and just let those things go fuck themselves.

[00:34:02] Yeah. There’s so much. Not do so

[00:34:06] Viv: much. It’s just busy work. What would you say falls into the busy work pilot? Just do like, it doesn’t need to be done. What do you think that people fall into the trap of kind of doing that is a non, non necessity. Let’s just filming search media,

[00:34:20] Leonie: obviously

[00:34:23] Viv: five on the least, the day of your week.

[00:34:25] Just drop social media at leading. Exactly. And that’s not even including all the time. Yeah. Hang it out, check it out. The comments and the lights and the views and everything else.

[00:34:34] Leonie: Yeah. Like it’s like you giving yourself a part-time job. You’re probably spending more time checking your social media than I am working.

[00:34:42] Complete total hours per week. You’re probably spending more hours a day. The chicken that I would also say, like checking your work, email more than once a day. Because for most people know your job is not to answer and receive emails. And so many people will just check [00:35:00] working emails all day every day, and they’d be like, oh, I’m gonna get back to these shows and this person, this person.

[00:35:04] Whereas if you just went in and batched it, it would probably take you five minutes. If you like had a good workflow, set up with some canned responses and, you know, sat down at your computer, actually reply to emails properly, and then got out and got on with your life. Um, it was interesting, actually, we’re looking at buying another house and I sent it through inquiries to some real estate agents.

[00:35:26] And it was very obvious which ones were just sending shit back on their phones and who were actually sitting down and thinking through the emails, because the people who were sending shit back when not thinking through this once as they were just trying to get through something as quickly as possible, while they’re in between tasks, they missed a whole bunch of the questions I’d asked.

[00:35:45] Whereas the people who actually just like send them. Did their emails got off and get on with their lives, did a much better job. So batching is really important. Other busy tasks. There’s a whole lot of, I think over-planning [00:36:00] really, you know, when you’re just trying to map out too much in too much detail that isn’t necessary filing doesn’t need to be over complicated.

[00:36:09] Like for me, My tax filing system is so simple. I also think a lot of people think they have to like, do all their own bookkeeping. I think that’s the first thing they should

[00:36:21] Viv: outsource. Absolutely. And it’s not expensive. Like just get rid of it because you’ve got to get, and don’t get into like 10 months into the year and go, fuck.

[00:36:29] I’ve not done any, any bookkeeping and mind my tux or did you like it? And, well, yeah, they’ve been back full of receipts.

[00:36:37] Leonie: Yeah. And then just everything. Like if you, if, if you’ve got 10 hours to work and you have much more important things to do to make you money, then those other things just to have to go fuck themselves.

[00:36:49] Like that’s, that’s the end. Yeah,

[00:36:52] Viv: I see with people, clients that the thing that people just avoid, which is like the lifeblood of business is [00:37:00] leads them to make quite some customers, you know, to convert people. And it’s the one thing that people just don’t do. They avoid like the PLA I got a new client I’m working with and she messaged me yesterday.

[00:37:11] She’s kind of doing a reach out to my previous clients, uh, to kind of say, do you know anyone that wants to work with me? And she was like, Oh, I’m so glad I’m working with you because I would totally have stopped by, but by this point, you know, and it’s just by sheer chance that she’s got a successful business so far that like word of mouth and things, you know, which is great.

[00:37:30] She’s kind of like, I want to grow and I want to know how to generate leads because I’m really conscious that actually slowing down and word of mouth. So, yeah, it’s so interesting. So I always say to people. You need, you need people, you need to bring people into your world to turn those into customers and clients.

[00:37:46] So kind of make that time, top of your list. And as you said, stop planning, stop overplanning. I used to do this. I don’t hide behind the bumps, you know, and not take the action. Just take out. Yeah, action. Imperfect [00:38:00] action. You know, exactly. Absolutely. I I’m going to just add in the show notes that Leo needs linked to her.

[00:38:07] Cause because you’ve just released a course at the end of last year. Was it on working 10 hours a week on how to work 10 hours a week? Yeah,

[00:38:13] Leonie: work less and more because people are always like my fucking hand and I was like, I’ll just, uh, tell you exactly how I do it and how like what tasks I do, what my schedule is, all

[00:38:24] Viv: that.

[00:38:25] Yeah. So I haven’t, I haven’t watched it, something like that. Oh yes. It’s on my list. Maybe to have a look at I’m like, damn, how did she get it down to 10? I want to reduce it from 20. What have been the changes for Zita? Who’s one of your VAs who I know when I heard your, your recent interview about your year after, year on from leaving social media that you said to, obviously she used to spend a lot of time creating social media posts and content.

[00:38:53] Now that’s. What does she do? Where does she allocate her time now? What? She kind of, one of the things she focuses on now. [00:39:00] Oh, sure.

[00:39:01] Leonie: Um, so yeah, so I’ve got one assistant who does customer service only. Um, Lydia does that and then Cedar is kind of my online business manager. So she does anything I want her to do.

[00:39:13] So she was fucking thrilled that we got rid of social media. She’s like, oh, Yeah. So I kind of called her like my production assistant, like my studio assistant, because anything that I want to do or create she’s there to support in any way that I can. So usually when we launch something, she will do all the backend tech stuff to set it up.

[00:39:39] Then she will help me, like, I’ll create like all of the. Like copy for it. And then she will divide it up into like sales emails to go out and schedule all of them in and making sure that like the links are going to these offers and that’s going to move around at this time. Um, once I’ve created all the puppies for stock, she can actually just round [00:40:00] and choose by herself now, which is great because I’m quite burnt out from doing all of that.

[00:40:05] So she’s my extra pair of hands. And then in terms of like, if I’m bringing out new content yeah. Or new freebies or whatever. She is there to like provide any production support in order to make that happen. So, you know, if I do all of the videos, she will edit them and compile them and publish them into our course platform.

[00:40:25] Or she will, some of the courses like she will do kind of behind the scenes of her area in that part of the business. So people can have like an extra bonus insight into that area. She’ll help me brainstorm into like new worksheets that we could produce to create like a better learning experience. He’s really, they’re just like an extra pair of hands and an extra brain for me.

[00:40:48] And so I train her, you know, a lot in copywriting and things like that, too. Yeah, make sure those skills. Once she really gets the energy of me. [00:41:00] And like, she can even write jokes as me now, which is amazing. I’ll be like, that is a good one. I definitely would have said that one state or, well, John, you know, she’d be like, have you thought about this?

[00:41:13] And now it’s like sexy,

[00:41:18] Viv: no fake. When you find the right person, you know, So good. My, my VA has just gone off and she’s she’s on maternity leave. She’s just had a third baby. Congratulations, Nick. The weekend, Patrick. So huge. Congrats. But I tell you what, it’s just like having my right arm chopped off and I know people are replaceable.

[00:41:39] You know, I’ve always had this bug that, I mean, people are replaced, but Janae, well, great people are just so invaluable who get you, who know you, who get how you speak, who know your brain and other. The complementary kind of opposite of you. Like I have said to Nick, we are opposites in so many ways. Like she loves the tech, hate the tech, she loves [00:42:00] all the stuff I hate and, you know, and vice versa.

[00:42:03] And so we are a perfect team, you know, we are a perfect whole, yeah. And I think. Finding that person just take such a pressure and a weight off your, where you can literally just kind of create something and kind of pass it on and know that they can make it beautiful, getting out there into the world to do whatever needs to do so.

[00:42:20] Yeah, I bet she loves it now, but like it’s kind of opened up her creativity, I guess now she’s not just like social media posts after social media posts and kind of in that churn that she’s got a lot more kind of creative freedom and license, maybe. Yeah,

[00:42:34] Leonie: for sure. Like, she was just like, oh, this is cool.

[00:42:37] Cause I can learn like, you know, one of the things that we do is like project 10%, which is where I’m like, okay, I want you to see if you can improve this area in the business by 10%. And then she has to like go and brainstorm how she can do that and investigate like, you know, things that she might need to train ourselves on in order to be able to do that, all that kind of stuff.

[00:42:56] Then she goes away and she trains itself and then implement it. And then she [00:43:00] reports back. What worked, what didn’t and what she learned. And so she loves the opportunity, like. Explore those other marketing methods and learn new things as well. We are not perfect opposites. We’re very similar because we, I tend to only hire people that have ADHD like me.

[00:43:23] And because I do tend to drive other people crazy and that’s totally fine. I need people who support me and my business. And who are a good match for me. So, um, yeah. I have somebody who we are very well aware that out. We don’t have much working memory between us. So we just kind of need systems and calendars in order to make that.

[00:43:44] Viv: That’s awesome. I so cool. That is everything I wanted to ask today. I’ve kind of bumped through the questions, but I said, guys, I’m going to pop in the show notes. Some of the links that we’ve mentioned today, so the earn more workplace or work less, earn more. Also, I’m going to pop in the link [00:44:00] to the interview that I mentioned for, uh, Leoni Lee, one year anniversary of leaving social media.

[00:44:06] Absolute gold. It’s really worth listening to Leoni has experienced life without social media now for, for over a year and you know, a thriving business still, you know, it has not bombed. It’s still doing really, really well and just a whole profit. Thank you so, so much for being here today.

[00:44:26] Leonie: I’ll thank you.

[00:44:26] I love

[00:44:27] Viv: you. Take care. Lovely. Take care of. So there you have it folks. I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of marketing without social media today and feel inspired to take action in your business, whatever that looks like for you. And as always, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning into another episode of this podcast.

[00:44:51] And if you haven’t done so already, please do subscribe to the podcast. So you don’t miss an episode, speak to you soon.[00:45:00] .