Note: at this time transcripts are automated and unedited, which means errors may occur. But we hope you find them helpful!

[00:00:00] Viv: Welcome back to another episode of marketing without social media. Now, before we dive in, I wanted to let you know that if you are a service based business, thank coaches consultants, therapists who wants to get to $7,000 plus recurring months. Yes. Every month, but needs help with growing your audience.

[00:00:18] Maybe with generating regular leads or landing paying clients, then I’d like to invite you to a free. 15 minute leads, game plan call. Yes, just 15 minutes to work on your marketing plan. This is a super fast pace call. And in this call, we are gonna take a look at your current situation to see what is, and isn’t working for you right now in your business.

[00:00:41] We’re gonna figure out and identify what’s possible for you and your business in the next. Six months and beyond, we’re gonna uncover the number one obstacle that is restricting your growth and holding you back right now. And finally, we are gonna develop a three step action plan. [00:01:00] Yes, three step action plan that will get you results in your business.

[00:01:05] AP now S a P. Now the session. Free it’s 15 minutes. And all you have to do is head on over to Viv guy.com/game plan. Yes, that’s Viv guy.com/game plan. Right now, pick a day, pick a time that suits you and let’s chat. This is an episode I’ve wanted to bring to you for some time now, but I had to find the right person and that person.

[00:01:32] Is a Jedi well, that’s how she likes to be known. A rods is my guest today. She’s a mindset coach, hypnotherapist and business coach, and also identifies as being neuro diverse. And that is our topic today, neurodiversity in business and as an entrepreneur. So in this episode, you are going to learn how to use your neuro diverse superpowers in [00:02:00] your.

[00:02:00] How to overcome visibility issues when you identify as being neurodiverse and how to effectively and successfully market your business when you are neurodiverse and with a neurodiverse brain. So guys, let’s dive into this episode because it is full of some amazing, useful content, some great tips that are really gonna help you within your business.

[00:02:27] And maybe just kind of reassure you that. You’re not alone. And you are an amazing person. Just the way you are.

[00:02:43] You’re listening to marketing without social media. With me, Viv guy, the podcast for people who want more clarity, connections, and cash in their business, I’ll be sharing with you proven techniques from leading. And experts from across the [00:03:00] globe to help you to market without social media and to grow your business in a way that actually feels good to you.

[00:03:16] Hello, Abby, and welcome to the show. So excited to have you here and thank you for joining.

[00:03:23] Abi: Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to be here. It’s really, really lovely.

[00:03:27] Viv: Um, this is a topic I’ve been really excited to, to speak about and bring to this show because it’s something I am seeing and encountering more and more with my, my own clients.

[00:03:39] And obviously we’ve talked about this separately, cuz Abby’s, uh, provided some training for my clients and within my, my group programs and yeah. Neurodiversity within our businesses and you know, how do we manage if we are neurodiverse within businesses? And I think it’s not just if you are neurodiverse, but if you are [00:04:00] working as, as most of my clients are one to one with other people.

[00:04:04] If they identify as neuro being neurodiverse, then how do we support them? You know, one of the things that we can do to make it a lot easier uh, with those working relationships. So, so that’s obviously what we’re talking about. The first thing I, I guess I would like to know before we dive into our questions is how have you gotten into kind of this area of kind of working and talking about neuro diversity?

[00:04:33] Abi: Um, so it was, I guess, something that just came up for me earlier this year and almost outta the blue, really. So for years and years, I’d had mega kind of anxiety issues, self confidence issues. And so all throughout my childhood and growing up and into early adult life. And then I got into what I do now through having hypnotherapy and managing, to get rid of a [00:05:00] lot of those anxiety and confidence issues.

[00:05:02] And kind of thought, well, that’s, that’s that solved? Great problem. Solved on, on with life. And then just became aware, I think earlier this year that there was a lot of talk about ADHD and autism. I think there was a, a document wasn’t there with Patty McGinness and his wife, Christine, and. Uh, there was just a lot more awareness in the media.

[00:05:26] And I kept kind of coming across articles about women who had ADHD and ASD. And I was just like curiously reading one, one day. And I thought, oh, this describes me. This describes a lot of what I have recognized from, from my childhood and from later life as well. Maybe I’ll look into this and just to see if there is a bit of a chance that, that this might be me.

[00:05:50] Very much around kind of the communication side of things in particular, I’d always, as a kid, kind of just felt a bit like a, a self-contained person. And I had some [00:06:00] friends, but they were quite close friends and they’d have to approach me first. Um, and I’d tend to have very. Intense kind of one to one relationships with people, rather than hanging around with a big group of kids and always struggle to integrate and socialize got bullied and all that stuff as a, as a child.

[00:06:16] So it just, I was just curious about that. Um, and I guess also that having children of my own now as well, you kind of, you become more aware of behaviors and how you respond to children and their lives and what’s going on with them as well. And, and that sort of stuff sparked it for me as well. So. Did some digging and lo and behold, it turned out I am on the autistic spectrum, significantly enough for it to be cast as autism.

[00:06:42] I’ve not had an official diagnosis, but I’ve done some online tests, which are pretty comprehensive. And, um, and that, I’m also very good at masking, which a lot of women are, which interesting means that we adapt and learn to cope. Um, [00:07:00] Kind of learn normal behaviors. Um, which makes it sound all really weird and not at all.

[00:07:06] um, but. We just kind of learned how to cope in society and, and integrate with, um, neurotypical people and hide a lot of the things that, that typically we would do as, as neurodiverse. And yeah, I came out fairly highly scoring on that as well. So I’ve done a good job of

[00:07:25] Viv: assimilating over the years. I, I, I’m just that that’s fascinating.

[00:07:31] And this isn’t our, we’ve not. Got into our questions yet, but I just wanna ask on that one, you know, kind of this hiding your neurodiversity and kind of trying to kind of integrate with neurotypical. Society or people. How does that make you feel? Is that kind of, part of the cause of the anxiety that you were feeling that you couldn’t be self?

[00:07:52] Am I doing things correctly, correctly? I say, you know, in university covers here, um, you know, that, that fits in and conforms that, how does that [00:08:00] yeah. How does that kind of, how does that present? And

[00:08:03] Abi: yeah, I can only speak for me and I just assume that it’s very similar for a lot of other people who are on the autistic spectrum.

[00:08:11] And so. There was always just this kind of feeling that wanted to make sure I was getting it right. And I just always was very cautious in social situations and very much kind of paying attention to what I was doing with my body and how I was responding to people and trying to really be careful with the words that came out of my mouth.

[00:08:34] And very often I’d find that I knew what I wanted to say in my head, but the wrong thing it’d come spit out. um, and I think, yeah, a lot of. Just being so like super conscious of what I was doing and how I was behaving, obviously became this massive anxiety for me as well. And I think that’s, that’s it for a lot of people that you Don.

[00:08:55] Kind of, I wasn’t sat there thinking I’m neurodiverse. Therefore I’m [00:09:00] gonna be like judged in this situation or I’m gonna appear different and people are gonna be aware. Cause I wasn’t even aware of it back then. Just that I felt different in some way. And I just felt like I had to really try hard to get things right.

[00:09:13] In social situations. And I think that’s where a lot of that anxiety and, and stress kind of arose from for me. Yeah. I imagine it’s

[00:09:20] Viv: similar. That resonates so, so much, let’s say, you know, I, I quite a large proportion of my clients identify as being, you know, having neurodiverse brains and interestingly, the things you’ve said about really feeling like you’ve gotta check what you’re saying and.

[00:09:38] Writing is a big one as well. It comes up for some of my clients’ terms of emails and things. It really interesting, and it causes a massive amount of anxiety. Yeah. Uh, and yeah, really interesting. So, which is one of the questions we’re gonna get to shortly, but one thing I want to, to kind of ask is if we kind of not sure.

[00:09:57] If we’re whether or not we’re neurodiverse [00:10:00] or not. Yeah. And we’re not gonna diagnosis because there are so many people, you know, my friend was oh, mid forties and it was only when his youngest son was getting diagnosed that he realized he was on the autistic spectrum himself. Kind of like, oh, it totally makes sense now

[00:10:18] Um, but I didn’t know this and it just hadn’t happened. So like when he was at school. So, you know, if you haven’t had a, a formal diagnosis yeah. You know, are there signs, symptoms, feelings that would help you kind of maybe pursue, like you’ve done some online assessments to kind of just mm-hmm I guess it gives you that reassurance.

[00:10:37] Like, I . You know, this is me. I kind of, I can now kind of identify and put a, a label on this and kind of find some ways to, to manage this better in my life. Yeah. So if you don’t, this is a long question, wasn’t it? . So if, if we’re not sure whether we are neurodiverse and we’re not diagnosed, how can we determine if we are.

[00:10:58] Abi: Um, I think just doing some good [00:11:00] reading around it, first of all, that’s that’s what I did was, um, just having a look at kind of news articles, um, watching the documentary I mentioned earlier that was quite helpful. There’s, there’s quite a wealth of information out there these days to give you a good list of the, the symptoms and signs and so on.

[00:11:16] And yeah, and just, I, I found, I think there are some Facebook groups out there as well that you can check in with and kind of see what people’s symptoms are alike and. It’s quite helpful to do that. And people don’t mind at all. I think people are, are often a bit worried that, oh, if I just go and sign up to this Facebook group and it’s, it’s all for neurodiverse people and I’m not sure if I really am or not.

[00:11:38] And I feel like a bit of an imposter, don’t worry about that. People are generally very warm and receptive and open to helping you on that journey of discovery, whichever way it turns out to be. So, yeah, just go and ask questions, go find out. Um, But the, the test I did is called the rads R test that are a DS hyphen R um, [00:12:00] nice long abbreviation and on there as well on that website, there’s quite a lot of information, um, or just through doing the, the test itself, you’d be able to identify.

[00:12:09] Brilliant. We link that. Well,

[00:12:10] Viv: maybe it’s mine. Yeah. We’ll link that in the show notes guys as well. And actually I’ve just got this book and I haven’t read yet just arrived actually yesterday, the autism friendly guy to self-employment by fantastic Robin Stewart that was recommended to me by a colleague of mine.

[00:12:26] So yeah, I’ll, I’ll let you know guys how that goes, but yeah, that’s been highly recommended to me as well. So, and that’s actually an account of this lady. Who’s written a book who is an entrepreneur and kind of how, you know, she manages it. You know, the signs and symptoms and challenges and strengths and everything, and how to actually manage that and build a business with when you’re neurodiverse.

[00:12:46] So awesome. That’s great. So talk to us about the kind of ways that neuro being neurodiverse and identifying as neurodiverse can, can it like the challenges it can bring up for you within your business, the impact it can [00:13:00] have on your business? Cause I know the way I see things with, with my own clients in terms of marketing mm-hmm , but what do you see and kind of what have you experienced.

[00:13:09] Abi: Well, definitely the, the visibility thing I think can be very big for people. And as we were just alluding to their imposter syndrome is, is a thing for everybody. Anyway, we all experience it, but I think it can be kind of ramped up to another level when you’ve got neurodiversity on top of that as well.

[00:13:26] It’s a, I guess the biggest thing for me in my business and how it’s affected me is I’ve just always really struggled to put myself in a, in a box or. Focus on doing one thing at a time. And we all kind of, we know that the riches are in the niches or whatever it is, we should all focus on the one thing and do the one thing to get us to our million dollar business or whatever.

[00:13:49] But it can be so hard if, um, this is more, I think the ADHD side of things. Now, if you are a bit of a, a shiny object to chaser like me, um, [00:14:00] you’ve got an idea and it’s the best idea in the world, and then you start doing it and then another brilliant idea comes along and then another one, and you just want to do all the things.

[00:14:07] And I found particularly in my first couple of years, um, of. I’m trying to run my business seriously as an online entrepreneur, that I was just pulling myself in so many different directions. Taking things on without really understanding what was involved in them as well. So it’d just be like, oh, fancy running a challenge next week.

[00:14:28] I’m just gonna go and do a challenge and then getting part way through and then realizing that I needed to put all together, all these emails and create all this content and stuff. And it’s like, you you’ve, you love the idea on the surface. It sounds fantastic. But you then get yourself very bogged down in all the detail of having to do it.

[00:14:45] And. My hyper focus side of things would kick in then. And it’d be like, no, I’ve got to do it all properly and thoroughly. Um, and I’d be doing that and juggling that with three or four other projects. We were on the go at the same time. So yeah, just the first year or [00:15:00] two, I was just sort of massively overwhelming myself and getting to this point of burnout.

[00:15:04] And I think I had one, one Christmas where I decided to run a challenge over Christmas for you. That cause I felt like the most exciting thing at the time. Um, and then I just, I sat down after that I finished and thought this is ridiculous. Like I just need to calm down and stop focusing on so many things and consciously make that decision.

[00:15:24] Back off and not let the shiny objects in dream rule the world. So I think for me, that was, that was the

[00:15:30] Viv: biggest. And how do you do that then? Cause there’s probably people start there nodding a along going yes. Yeah. To me, that’s me. I do that. How do you then manage to kind of bring that into, to check and focus that you, you try and stay focused on, on like one thing at a time?

[00:15:47] How, yeah. How do you do that? Like day to day practically? What, what are the things that you do? Do you kind of look in the mirror and go. No will not do another, another crazy challenge. You Christmas this time,

[00:15:59] Abi: a bit of that, [00:16:00] a bit of talking to myself and saying, look rational every step in you need to rule the show.

[00:16:05] Um, I got very strict with myself after that particular challenge event. And I said to myself, right, you’re gonna focus on two or three things maximum in one go, and that’s gonna be it like you can do your normal. Day to day things that you need to do to keep the business running. What are those plan those out?

[00:16:25] So for me, that was things like the podcast, getting out my new, uh, letter every week to my email list as well. Um, admin stuff, although I’ve now outsourced a lot of that, thankfully, and then saying right alongside that. That’s how much time this takes up in the diary every week. And these are the times when I’m probably gonna do it.

[00:16:44] Um, How much time have I got and how much can I afford to take on? And just limited myself to doing a couple of things at once and not letting myself go off on shiny object tangent. So it was very much coming back to planning it quite [00:17:00] carefully and really bringing in that rational decision making process to say, what are the goals and objectives?

[00:17:07] And. Very sensible thing to do anyway, in business, whether you are neurodiverse or not, sort of really check in with those long term goals and making sure that everything you are doing is aligned with those. And it’s not just a win, it’s not just that you’ve got tracked off by this shiny thing and being really strict with myself over

[00:17:24] Viv: that.

[00:17:25] So do you find, I dunno if you have an accountability body or have had an accountability body, cuz for me that that helps and you know, I’m neurotypical, I guess. Uh mm-hmm. . Just someone to call you out on those things when you’re like, oh, I’m distracted because this is, this is boring me now, or it’s dull because you know, I’m doing it and it’s predictable and maybe I want to do something more exciting.

[00:17:49] Uh, so it’s good to have someone kind of go, Hey, write it back. Do you, do you find that that’s something that has helped or do you have an accountability, buddy? Have you had an accountability [00:18:00] buddy? I never

[00:18:01] Abi: really have no, no, I know it’s, it can be such a useful thing for people. And I think it’s something I quite often recommend to people, but I think you’ve gotta also work with what works for you and sure.

[00:18:11] For me, I’m, I’m quite, I’m really good at being self motivated and really good at keeping myself held to account. Um, and. I have found what, what I will tend to do is trick myself into accountability. I will sign up to a mastermind or be in a group program or something where I know that I will get called out on it if I’m deviating too much from, from the proven path.

[00:18:33] But I’ve, I’ve never kind of forced myself into a corner and said, you, you must have an accountability, buddy. Yeah. Um, But yeah, it can be a really, really powerful thing. And I think whatever works for you is good. Um, I use Trello. I’m sure lots of your listeners are familiar with that. And I just have a really.

[00:18:50] Good system on there that helps me know exactly what I’ve got to do the next day and stick to that. And it’s, it’s wonderful. It’s like seeing my brain, um, seeing the nice, [00:19:00] organized side of my brain on, on

[00:19:01] Viv: paper. that’s fantastic. That is fantastic. Um, and this is one of the things that. This is one of the things that I know has come up for some of my, my clients is this idea of like time blocking is really difficult.

[00:19:16] So I know you’ve talked about like, you know, predictable. These are the things I need to do each day to make my business work and be profitable and successful. What do you say to people? Like I find time blocking really difficult and sticking to time blocking so you can tell me and I can, or I can create this time, lot lovely kind of colorful chart, but I don’t do it.

[00:19:36] I just can’t stick to it. What do you say to people? You know, and especially like I have one kind who like that, I just want to kind of go and play behind the scenes on the things that make me feel good and are easy. And I don’t have to go out and do those challenging things, even though they’re on my time lock sheet.

[00:19:50] So what do you say to, to people and clients who are having those kind of challenges?

[00:19:56] Abi: I, I might question if you are, if you’re struggling to do the things that are on [00:20:00] your time block sheet, um, firstly, whether they’re really things that you wanna be doing

[00:20:04] Viv: yeah. absolutely whether you’re

[00:20:07] Abi: doing quite what’s in alignment with you in your, your businesses, you want to create it.

[00:20:10] So that’s, that’s maybe worth exploring. Um, but I, I totally totally sympathize with that. Cause I, when I first started out, um, working with the coach, they got me time book. And it was like every half an hour or every hour or something like that. And I just, I loved the idea and then I, I filled in the pretty spreadsheet and made it all colorful and lovely.

[00:20:31] And then just didn’t touch it again. left it completely low, um, because I’m, I’m never very good at being put in a

[00:20:41] Viv: pigeon hole and.

[00:20:44] Abi: Being told what to do, even if it’s me telling me what to do. So I love to have that bit of freedom and flexibility, and that’s really important to me. So I do now time block, but in a really flexible way.

[00:20:56] And I think it’s, again, it’s about making it work for you. So [00:21:00] as I say, I’ll have those things in my diary that I know need to get done every week. And. I can theoretically allocate time to it and say, this would be a great time to do that. Um, but also I kind of let myself wonder about a bit as long as it gets done within that week.

[00:21:16] And I’ll do things like I always see clients in the afternoon. That’s my happy mm-hmm relaxed client time. Um, I at my most creative and productive, usually in the morning. So I’ll just say, look, I’m gonna block the whole morning as my creative. And I’m not gonna be super specific about what happens every half an hour.

[00:21:34] I’m just gonna say, this is my time to create and do those things that have put my trailer board. And, and that it’s kinda up to me in the moment, which one feels most appealing. That’s

[00:21:43] Viv: awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

[00:21:46] Abi: That, that voice of you must stay on track in your own mind, but also let yourself roam a bit cuz you’re just rebel otherwise.

[00:21:53] Viv: Absolutely. Yeah. And I remember one of my clients, you know, my very first clients actually. I think [00:22:00] ADHD has ADHD. Um, and I don’t think she was diagnosed at the time it came out later, but interestingly, yeah. Uh, the same thing, you know, she, she, she was working crazy. I was burning out and everything, but when it came to it, we kind of timed what she was gonna work on these four days.

[00:22:15] But very loosely, like this is client time and beyond that, this is what needs to be done each week. Do it when it feels good. Okay. Um, yeah, absolutely. So I think, I think that’s a great idea. Um, And I do agree in terms of how people doing things that are out of line alignment. We talk about that a lot, but I do think for some people, it’s just that I think it’s the visibility thing that I see coming out that the activities people don’t wanna do, maybe are.

[00:22:42] Email lists, you know, opening emails sometimes even because the fear of having to then respond and judgment over how you respond and absolutely so on and so forth. And so it’s those things that, yes, you’ve still gotta show up to obviously market your business, but it’s really difficult. And that’s the things I think I see people [00:23:00] avoiding a lot the visibility aspect.

[00:23:01] Abi: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think if that’s a, a real issue then, um, it’s well worth getting some help with anxiety and visibility issues on that. Yeah. Um, and that’s that. It’s compounded by the neurodiversity often, or it can originate from having experiences as a neurodiverse individual, but it’s a separate thing in itself and that can be, um, managed and you can absolutely learn to feel confident, being visible and handle those sorts of situations.

[00:23:29] And that’s like, that’s what I do with people. So

[00:23:31] Viv: I was gonna say, and that’s your expertise, isn’t it? Which is fantastic. So yeah, for anyone out there who’s feeling like, and, you know, I can feel how emotional I feel for some of my clients, you know, that this is like that. Help and support to really kind of deal with some of this because it’s, as you say, this is like from childhood and there are significant events, life events that have happened that have maybe not been great because of the way you’ve kind of [00:24:00] struggled with, with neurodiversity and.

[00:24:01] Fitting in and da, da, da, and, and that’s kind of really led to these visibility issues. So, you know, help is out there and speak to Abby. Her link is in the show notes. If that’s something you feel like you’re listening to this, that it would serve you well. Um, because obviously, you know, guys marketing your business, you do have to show up in some way, shape or form.

[00:24:21] Absolutely. Yeah. So. Um, we’ve talked about some of the challenges, how let’s flip this on its head. Let’s talk about some of the strengths, the superpowers, you know, that come with the neurodiversity. Cause I know there are some amazing strengths. So talk to us about these, the ways, you know, neurodiversity can be an asset for our businesses.

[00:24:42] Yeah. I

[00:24:43] Abi: love my super Paris. that was a really nice thing for me actually, when I realized what was going on, I was kind of able to, as you said earlier, park, all those older. Things and say, well, maybe there are just aspects of who I am that are never gonna change, and I’m always gonna struggle to process it and things, [00:25:00] and, and that’s okay.

[00:25:01] Now I can just drop that and stop worrying about it and adapt rather than trying to fix it. Um, I don’t fix things to

[00:25:11] it. It just kind of gives you that little boost and then focusing on yeah. The, the good side of things. It’s like, wow. Um, that means I’ve got. Brain that can think in multiple different directions at once. So I might not be very good at the linear stuff. I might, might not see sequences and I might struggle to remember a sequence or absorb directions.

[00:25:31] If somebody’s telling me like, where’s the local train station get lost after like direction to, um, but. My brain will go a million miles a second, and I can come up with all the ideas. And my poor husband knows this. He’s like halfway through one DIY job and I’ve got three more lined up. um, like, well, we could just do that.

[00:25:51] Couldn’t we . So that capacity to be creative and for ideas to just pop out of nowhere and, and bounce around and come up with fantastic [00:26:00] things is really exciting. Um, and with the, uh, the ASD, the autism side of things as. As I said, I’m very, self-motivated very able to just sit down and do a thing. If it’s, if it feels really exciting and really in tune with me.

[00:26:15] I feel fired up about it, then you can’t turn me away from it for wild horses. So, um, yeah, I can get totally lost in something and happily see it through to the end. Um, and I just, I love to do that. I can spend hours getting lost in certain things. So you just have to be a bit careful on the other side of that, that you don’t get too

[00:26:32] Viv: lost.

[00:26:33] yeah, that, that’s something as we talked about for anyway, you can really hyper focus in and maybe some of the other stuff that’s important still for kind of the day to day kind of things from in your business. Can fall by the wayside, because what you’re doing is so exciting when your new project or whatever it is.

[00:26:50] But as we, as you said, you know, that creativity, uh, and, and I I’ve talked about this in a much earlier episode about my experience of coming off social media [00:27:00] and how it allowed my creative brain, just to kind of re reappear and kind of reignite and refire. And I thought, oh, where have you been? Yeah, it’s social media for me.

[00:27:11] Um, and. How it’s such an essential asset for us as entrepreneurs to allow ourselves to be creative. Uh, and as, as you said, you know, sort of your neurodiverse, then that is such an asset because you are gonna have. So, you know, you’re never really gonna be short of ideas for your business and ways and directions to, to take it in.

[00:27:34] Um, and I love that. Um, and I know, uh, Lizzy Goddard and I’ll, uh, link her in the show notes. She, she has, you know, she’s built her business very differently to most people in that she has lots of offerings because. That’s what she loves. And she identifies as, as being neuro diverse. Um, and so she has kind of built this business that absolutely compliments, you know, the, the, [00:28:00] the way she is, the way she wants to operate and run a business.

[00:28:03] And it’s fantastic to see. So, you know, you can make a business work for you. You, there is, that’s the big thing here, isn’t it?

[00:28:12] Abi: Yeah. Yeah. And I always say to anybody. I think particularly here. Um, yeah, it’s all about embracing the things that you really enjoy and that light you up and that you feel mega passionate about.

[00:28:25] And don’t let anybody tell you that you’ve got to do things a certain way or follow a certain strategy. There are. Endless strategies that will get you to your goal. It’s just picking the right one for you that you can stick with and that you enjoy. And I’m much the same as li I just keep popping out different courses and offers and things here and there.

[00:28:42] And people are always like, how, how do you do it? We can’t keep up here. . Yeah. Um, but it’s because it feels so, so good and so aligned and, and exciting and, um, yeah. Fantastic. Lovely. To be able. Do that and get into that creative zone and, and enjoy it as long as they’re relevant for your clients,

[00:28:59] Viv: [00:29:00] obviously

[00:29:05] where can people connect with you? Find out more about you and hear more from

[00:29:10] Abi: you. Best place is probably my podcast, which is called unblock your business, um, or my website, which you can find at www dot unblock, your business.com and the podcast is, is on there. And there are various bits and pieces and freebies and things on there as well.

[00:29:26] Um, if you, if you are partial to a freebie, otherwise I am over on LinkedIn as well. That’s my. Happy spot at the moment. So

[00:29:34] Viv: come find me lovely. And we will link all of those in the show notes. And as we said, as well, obviously, if people want to work with you, Abby is, is phenomenal. What she does and can really, really help you if you’ve kind of sat here thinking, wow, yes, I need some help with this anxiety around visibility, for sure.

[00:29:52] Speak to Abby because. As we said, you know, this is something, if you’re gonna have a successful business, you know, you need to be able to address this, this [00:30:00] area and kind of unlock and, and kind of explore what’s going on there. So, you know, guys, the, the support is out there and I hope you found this a useful episode.

[00:30:09] So Abby, thank you so, so much for being here today. Thank you.

[00:30:14] Abi: And I managed to stay on, on point and on focus. go wandering off too. No,

[00:30:19] Viv: we did. Well. We both did well. Thank you so much. So there you have it folks. I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of marketing without social media today and feel inspired to take action in your business, whatever that looks like for you and as always, thank you.

[00:30:38] Thank you. Thank you for tuning into another episode of this podcast. And if you haven’t done so already, please do subscribe to the podcast. So you don’t miss an episode, speak to you soon.[00:31:00]